You've totally lost me now (that's not hard though).

I don't know of any PvEers that get bored shooting at rats and instead want to go looking for war targets.

Sorry I can't help more.

As in a group of people protecting you from belt rats? In highsec Hell no because whoever came up with that idea is dumb. WHy would they stay for almost no profit?

If however you are talking about PvE,PvP and mining in one corp yeh works. But the Miners cant expect the others to sit there babysitting them all day. That would be pathetic.

Maybe they were working with the wrong miners.

Any group of miners with decently fit (not max yield) ships should be able to take out any highsec belt rats no problem.

If you have found PvE players that want to stop shooting at rats and instead go looking for war targets then I think you've found the right type of players, not the wrong ones.

I'm sure highsec would be more interesting for many people if they stopped shooting rats at wartime and went and waged war. They seem like fun players.

I would also think that would make your miners safer in many respects, as long as you move your mining operations away from the many systems being visited by your opponents.

Aren't most HiSec corps "mission and mining"?

While the PVE experience is a common path for many new players and budding EVE CEOs, it unfortunately will not build a corporation or culture that will last more than a year or so. There are always exceptions but they are the minority.

The challenge with many of these corporations is they lack vision, unfortunately after about a year the group whose focus is PVE will have peaked or will be on their way to an "Awful Loss of the Day" ALOD.

Strong CEOs will prevent groups from peaking and will ensure that there is always another carrot to chase. Sadly, for PVE, the content does not allow such a narrative to be developed.

Mixed corporations of miners, PVE, and PVP are very difficult to lead as its membership lacks a cohesive view of how the game can be played. Unless the group is held together through an external means, corporations and alliances like these rarely last. Specialization is very powerful in EVE and mixed groups tend to be less competitive.

The vision for a corporation does not need to be complicated; however, it needs to be clearly communicated in a sentence or two. A clear vision does not allow for multiple interpretations.

If done right, a solid corporation will attract people who share that goal and build game play to realize it. If a corporation can last for several years, its membership will develop strong friendships that regardless of what the group does, it will adapt as a group.

You shouldn't need anyone to kill NPC's when you mine, a properly fitted barge should be able to tank even 0.0 spawns long enough for your drones to kill them.

If you're expecting someone to just sit there and watch / protect you while you mine (which probably means they're giving up doing something that would make then more isk than you get from mining anyway), then the only PVE'ers you'll find willing to do that are very new / inexperienced players.

If I've learned anything in EVE, it's that you don't hire anyone for anything. You build a community, and inspire its loyalty, and someone in that community will WANT to provide security for your miners, free of charge.

The short answer is no, it doesn't work.

The more detailed is, it doesn't need to. A belt will never see more than 5 npc's at a time. It's the same for any place that has Ore. There is no demand for dedicated combat vessels at the mining site. Even in Null mining Ops, the military PvP ships guarding the miners are on gates, allowing the mining fleet time to get to a POS because first primary is dead even in a bad fleet and if you have the mining fleet on grid of battle, they will be first primary.

tl;dr - escort is fail in EVE. - exception here is the dual web frigate forcing large ships to warp faster and they have nothing to do with mining.

Possible exception, WH mining. In these cases it's trade out with a single alt on screen acting as an Aggro magnet while mining ships warp away to be replaced by combat. Escort still doesn't truly work.

Protip no one flies Hulks in Null (not for long anyway)

You.
You are not able to handle the poor npcs who appear in a hi-sec belt, and for that you ask non-miners to sit at a belt for hours.
You don't deserve them. People play for fun and/or profit, and what you provide is not fun at all and brings no money.
Congratulations, you've just invented an activity which is even more boring than mining. Worse : it's useless, as any miner can very easily defend themselves from belt rats in high sec.
And asking PvEers to protect you from CODE and other PvPers is also dumb. PvEers want to do some PvE, else they are called PvPers .
The general feeling from your posts is that you have absolutely no clue of what you are doing, and that you are too proud to realize it, despite all the answers going in the same direction, which should raise a doubt in your mind. Narrow minded people never doubt.
Have fun.

Yet. Because of this forum thread many people such as myself have watchlisted you and run locator agents already. Prepare your anus.

To illutrate what kind of personality we are dealing with, i will paste here your parallel post from New Citizens Q&A :

"I get irritated when people don't know this.

1. If you mine every rock in a belt, you will get 1st day rocks in that belt after DT. There will be exactly the same number of rocks, same number of each type, and in exactly the same places, but they will be as small as they can ever get.

2. Small rocks are usually not worth mining at all if you use Crystals. T2 crystal takes damage every time the Strip Miner is turned on. Small rocks mean the on/off cycle is very short. Lot's of damage mining small rocks.

3. A corollary that took me three years to prove to my satisfaction, is that, If you mine every rock of one ore type, say all of the Veldspar, the next day all of the Veldspar will be 1st day. If no one mines out the other types they will re-spawn normally, either the same size, or larger.

The point I'm trying to make is that you may get some personal satisfaction out of clearing a belt, but if you want to mine that belt again, after DT, it will be a waste of your time, unless you are flying a Venture.

So, if you find a belt that only has a few rocks in it, and none of them are concentrates, I suggest that you look for another belt.

There are 3 rock sizes, 1st day (smallest), 2nd day (medium sized), and 3rd day (full sized).

I am sure that there will be people who dispute these findings, for one reason or another, or just don't care.

All I can tell you is that I have been a successful miner for 5 years, largely because I lived by these rules. The information has proven valuable to my alliance, but I was actually paid to do most of the research."

What can we see there ?
You are "irritated at people", you "live by some rules", and you seem so proud that you expect everyone to follow you blindly because "you know".
I don't even understand why you post on the forums : you don't ask any question, you state your rules.
I hope your corpies will open their eyes and send you to a black hole, the only thing in the universe which seems stronger than your ego.

You kindly forgot that you were in an alliance. And unless you have 26 forum alts...

They probably also forgot that even if it's just a shell alliance at least one of the corps CEO's / Founders will probably have some form of finished contracts history searchable to find a link to a character in the actual main corp.

Miner = Shoots Rocks

PvEer = Shoots NPC's

PvPer = Shoots People

Stop ******* it up.




Anyway, PvE people want to shoot red crosses, not sit around in an asteroid belt guarding your giant ego. Miners are called miners for a reason, usually. They eat rocks and avoid pvp. Hence why they don't wardec eachother. Because wardecs involve pvp.

I never said I would wardec you. Why waste money on a wardec when I could join you on an alt and shoot greens? Then cloak in space while I sleep so you would never be able to remove me.



Already done.

In 0.0 the miner / pvp / pve balance can work very well as the non-miners can stay in the same system and bounce around the belts / anomalies helping out the miners where needed from just a warp distance away at most. (and the NPC's values makes doing this worthwhile to them). In high sec however this isn't the case - they're in effect losing more isk than you're making from mining by just sitting there on guard duty.

Because you are arrogant.

If you want to have a corp that goes berserk when competing mining crew shows up at "your" belt(s) you should recruit people with characters able to fly mining ships AND pvp ships AND those people should know how to use both kinds of ships properly.

You cannot expect Joe The Miner undocking ganking cat when you promised him everlasting mining op. Just the same as you cannot expect Tim The Ganker to sit at belt with your hulks keeping watch.

State your expectations and goals clearly from the beginning so people who are in your corp know exactly what they can expect from you and what is expected of them.

Another thing is, if you have a corp with mining branch and "pve" branch and if "pve" scrub starts to have some opinions about mining guys you should step in and cut this sh!t ASAP. You cannot expect to have a functioning corp when some people think better of themselves just because their pixels are different.

A mining corp with PvE branches is fine. Miners and mission runners can coexist together no problem. This is clearly not what you're asking for though so no, forcing PvP players to sit around and babysit a highsec mining operation will not work. You'll just be wasting people's time for nothing.

Combat escorts won't help at all against highsec gankers. They can't attack until the gankers turn criminal, and chances are by that time the miners are already dying. The gankers are there to lose their ships. Whether you have combat ships or not is irrelevant to that outcome.

What you need to do is tank your ships (A shield booster won't really help your tank. Just mentioning because a lot of miner killmails seem to use that and nothing else). This includes at least one boost from your Orca for extra tank. As for the newer members, if they can only fly a Venture, then provide a ship replacement program for them using some of the profits from the mining op. Ventures are dirt cheap. If they can fly a mining barge put them in a tanked Procurer.


Now if you want to ignore tank in order to max yield then fine. But don't complain about ganks then, that's the choice you made. And if you REALLY want to max yield, you'll get a lot more having everyone in tanked mining ships rather than having some of your people sitting around idly in combat ships. You generally get 3 low slots for mining barges. Put a damage control in one of them.

Also one option is to have your miners use some T1 logistic drones and assist them to the Orca. Then if the Orca is paying attention you can put the drones on the gank target and maybe save them. Not guaranteed to work though and again, the Orca needs to be paying attention. (And don't even bother saying the Orca pilot shouldn't have to pay attention during a mining op. You're getting mad at combat ship pilots for not sticking around and paying attention for hours when they have even LESS to do than the miners and are understandably falling asleep at the controls)

I think that's an unfortunate generalisation. Judge the ones that you believe treated you bad, but don't prejudge others just because of the style of play they prefer.

Not all PvPers, nor all PvEers are bad, just as not all mining PvEers are bad.

First off; Kudos for setting up security and generating content for 2 groups of players. Nice going!

In order for an escort to be effective you need two things;

1. A proper escort.
Which is never a PvE-er. Its also not somebody that bails on you. As in stops being an escort all of a sudden.
So yes; I'd say you played with the wrong people for the job.

2. Enemies/risk
You're at war? You got that covered. Another option would be to go to lowsec or null. The frst requires some serious active d-scanning and a gtfo plan in case of hotdrops. You can be sure your current PvE guards wont survive that enviroment.
In null you can use ventures. But do the groundwork. Have saves. Be aligned etc. Use the thrill as part of the experience and allow it to compensate for less yield. Or the loss of your entire fleet if it really goes all wrong.

Good luck with the mining!

Well, difference is like between radar and your own eyes: if it's cloaked you won't see it and radar won't bounce its ray off of it (cloaks in Eve are not like stealth in RL, they hide you absolutely). And 150km is not exact value, you see ships/objects on grid up to that grid boundary and grid boundaries can be manipulated.

Also overview shows you only things that are of one of types you selected in Filters and have ALL states you selected in States in overview settings. D-scan shows you everything you selected in Filters but it doesn't take States into account. So you might see your corpies on d-scan while you don't see them in your "pvp" overview tab (usually it's not a good idea to have your corp/alliance/blues in same tab as things you can/should shoot at).

And another thing: d-scan doesn't show you things like asteroids, beacons, large collidable objects and such even if you have them selected in your overview settings. But it will show you probes, corpses, wrecks, cargo containers and of course celestials, stations, towers and other POS stuff and of course ships.

Probably because you can only escalate things in Eve, grid, fights, ego :)

And here come intel channels: chats where all your friends in area can warn you about possible hostiles or gank targets.
That's why it's good to have friends even if you are "solo" multiboxing ice belt crunching monster :)

Why don't you want your miners going berserk when someone starts mining out "your" belts?

Well, intel channels are for intel. For general stuff you have other chats/comms. All is good with small talk until it prevents you from noticing warning that's why intel channels usually are very quiet and if you see those tabs blinking you know you really should take a look.

Well, "go berserk" is likely the wrong phrasing, but you really shouldn't get held up on that.

However, wanting to keep things you've laid claim to (however tenuous that claim may be) doesn't make you a sociopath. Would you call kids who lay claim to a corner of a playground "sociopaths", because they want to keep the other kids away from whatever they're doing?

Fairly certain this is a giant troll thread, but I'll half-bite.


I mined on a handful of accounts with a corp (it now no longer exists as my friends all quit for Wildstar) for months without CODE or any other jerks attacking us. There was only one other corp that competed with us for belts, and they were Aussie TZ (i think), so we typically got whatever we wanted out of the belts.

My advice is to just move if you don't like what's going on. There are a crap load of places you can go. Sure, moving the corp is a pain, but is that more of a pain than the jerks that are harassing you or competing for the same ore?

If you have miners that are unwilling to at least train some drone and defensive skills, then let them die. Simple as that.

Clearly they don't appreciate your brilliance.

why should I move, when I can just kill my competition?

Because you are lazy miners, risk adverse, and completely unwilling to train any combat skills. Well...the OP is anyway.

I've been i this game for 7 years. Been miner, missioner, wormholer, ratter, hauler... pretty much just about everything. I've been in-ácorps with good leaders and corps with bad leaders. OP is a prime example of a bad leader.

10 days to put a newbie miner into a procurer, which is way more than enough to tank highsec rats and mines a butt ton more than a venture. This includes strip miner 1 and the tank mods. This took me about 5 seconds to find out, which OP apparently can't affort to waste while using those orca and freighter isk sinks to make himself look good to noobs, while probably scamming them out of their ore. A freighter to haul ore in highsec? Seriously?

Anyone who's been in this game as long as OP has knows the difference between PvEers and PvPers. The fact that OP didn't seem do know this basic fact makes me suspect that this is really a troll post. The multitude of posts with veiled personal insults combined with his blatant disregard of anyone not supportive of his entitlement mentality simply confirms this.

You know what my solution to the competition issue is? Warp in an orca and 8 hulks. Vacuum up EVERYTHING with Strip Miner 1's indiscriminately. Next Belt, Repeat. Yes I know you Newb Miners hate me. And no I don't care that you were mining that rock.

Kill Me? You are welcome to try.

first thing i did when i got into barge was then train t2 shields/drones, set me back a wee bit but on course for exhumers now, read some of yer posts, pretty informative cheers for that, mainly been reading of websites an trying to find upto date stuff lol any recommendations on some reading btw?

I'm a miner. I like being a miner. My first goal (met) was Halada's "perfect miner". My second (met) was "perfect drone skills" GÇö I am maxed with every drone skill except fighters and fighter bombers, but then I don't fly with carriers. My third goal (met) was perfect refining. My current goal (in progress) is to be able to fly well every combatant up to T2 Battleships. Note that I am well on the way to that last goal. I'm probably going to give incursions a try next.

Last big mining op I went on, we had a bunch of Hulks and Retrievers, some other barges, a couple of Orcas, and a freighter for hauling. It was ice mining. We did pretty well, and when some other folks came along and "helped" us clear the ice field, we didn't fret, we just moved to another system and cleared that ice field. Of course, we sent a couple scouts ahead to make sure there was a field, and it wasn't crowded with other folks. Sometimes we actually had to check two or three systems, but that was no big deal.

Generally speaking, when my corp gets wardecced, I sit in station until they give up. Doesn't bother me. Hell, I was away from the game completely for several years, so what's a week or two?

Mining may well have changed a lot since Crius, I dunno. Been busy doing other things.